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robsassy
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:36 am
I noticed recently when an ambulance patient came in with botulism, that abdominal palpation was not listed as an available examination, despite one of the symptoms being diagnosed via this method. Attached is a screenshot showing the patient, their available examinations plus the symptoms.

You can get to the exam by entering doctor mode, ticking the "no hints in diagnostics" box, then selecting abdominal palpation and then leaving doctor mode, but really it should be available from the start.

Not using any mods, screenshot attached.
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Attachment
Botulism.JPG You don't have permission to download attachments.(363 Kb) Downloaded 5 times
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prostefanx
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:13 am
I think That’s not a bug at all. Not all patients have every symptom. And if they don’t have the Symptom you can’t find the Symptom. So you don’t Need the diagnosis. And the game knows.

It’s only shown all symptoms you might have with this illness
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robsassy
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:24 am
You are right that not every patient has every symptom, but until every symptom has been discovered then you should be able to do every exam which might uncover that symptom which is available at that room (unless you've already done it). For example, in the Trauma Center I wouldn't expect Interview or Speech Listening to be available, but I would expect Abdominal Palpation to be available.
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robsassy
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:04 pm
Update to original post: same with lead poisoning - no abdominal palpation suggested even though it's how you uncover one of the symptoms
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prostefanx
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:06 am
So i watched to day in my game and had the same. its not a bug at all. its how the game works on easiest difficulty

i want to explain to you:

If you play in doctors mode, there is the possibility to hide symtoms or to have all examinations available -> so you can select them

if you play with lowest level in doctor mode -> it shows only POSSIBLE examinations that will make you clear SYMPTOMS.
SO if your patient hasnt that symptom, you cant do that examination. in fact you have chosen the easiest way in DOCTORS MODE
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robsassy
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:40 am
That's not how the game works - in the regular mode, the available tests are those relating to the symptoms which the patient could have, not the ones which the patient actually has. When a patient comes from an ambulance already diagnosed, I should be able to run any test for any symptom which a patient with that illness could have - which includes the two listed below.
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prostefanx
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:50 am
That’s your wish. And that’s possible if you do the Checkmark in the Box in the 4th tab where it asks to get „show only examinations with possible symptoms“ or not.
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prostefanx
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:30 pm
Look at my screen. PUT in the FIRST BOX the CHECKMARK.
Than it works for you.
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Attachment
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robsassy
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:54 pm
I've done that, and that's how I'm running those tests at the moment. My point is that I shouldn't have to do that, and therefore it is a bug.
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prostefanx
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:25 pm
No that’s how the „helping system works“ 😅
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robsassy
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:13 pm
The whole point of the regular mode is that I shouldn't ever need to go into doctor mode to discover any of the symptoms which a patient has. If possible symptoms for any illness are only available through doctor mode, that is a bug.
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prostefanx
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:17 pm
I see you don’t understand.

The patient is arriving with various possible symptoms from that list.

With doctor mode DISABLED you can only discover the symptoms the patient really has. You can’t do abdominal examination when it’s clear it doesn’t change anything because the hidden symptom isn’t related to.

With doctor mode ENABLED you can do every examination even when it’s not necessary


But no patients has ALL possible symptoms.
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robsassy
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:24 pm
I think it's you who doesn't understand.

In regular mode, you should be able to do any test to uncover a possible symptom which a patient may have - regardless of whether they actually have it or not.

I have attached an example patient for you. You can see that she has 3 hidden symptoms, but there are 4 tests available. 4 tests obviously means that 1 of those tests will come back with no result,, but that doesn't mean that the test shouldn't be available for me to see which symptoms she does have.

It's the same with my 2 bug reports in this post - except the test isn't available without going into doctor mode. And that is why it's a bug - because it should be available without doctor mode.
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Attachment
example patient.JPG You don't have permission to download attachments.(76 Kb) Downloaded 3 times
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prostefanx
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:14 pm
We can discuss it. I say it’s no but due to doctors mode.

But we will see 😅
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robsassy
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:22 am
One more I've just spotted - no speech listening available for HUS.

And to make my point here - the patient must have this symptom, because the other symptom which hasn't been found (cramps) is discovered by physical examination, which I have already done. I shouldn't need to go into doctor mode to run this test!
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jan.oxymoron
jan.oxymoron
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[RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available Empty Re: [RESOLVED] Botulism - examination not available

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:28 am
Hi, thanks for the report!

The list should actually show examinations for all possible symptoms of all the diagnoses that are still on the list, even without the option ticked in doctor mode - otherwise the list of examinations would be basically clear hints as to which symptoms the patient has.

It looks like in these cases the examinations were actually missing in the database (they're filled-in by hand per diagnosis), so we'll be fixing this for the next patch. Btw, most of these symptoms should be also discovered in the initial interview, but there are some cases where it might not work, like when the patient is unconscious or shy (and doesn't mention all the symptoms in the interview).

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