Project Hospital
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Swede74
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[OPEN] Simple bug that really breaks (my) immersion! Empty [OPEN] Simple bug that really breaks (my) immersion!

Tue May 05, 2020 11:46 am
Hi,

I mailed about this yesterday, including savefile, but realise it might not be the correct way for sending bugreports.

Description:
Patients sometime appear in the hospital with just "pain" or "tenderness", but they don't say WHERE!
This totally kills all immersion for me - patients arrive in pain, but refuse to tell you where!
20 examinations later you still only have "tenderness" to go on...

I've googled and googled, but haven't found anything about this, so maybe it's just me suffering from this problem?
Even if that's the case, I hope you can fix it, cause I suppose it must be a very easy fix to "disable" those patients!

I'm playing 1.2.19480 from GOG (don't know how that translates to Steam-update-versions).
No mods!
Similar has happened a few times, patients with different sort of pain, but they don't say where.
I've now stopped playing until this gets sorted out some way.

Including a save (and screenshots).
Have a look at John Harris as he enters the hospital/clinic!
Some hours later he'll be in Observation, waiting for a retina scan, just cause he didn't say WHERE he's in pain...  Rolling Eyes

Oh, and don't mind my amateurish layout, it's my very first try, still lots to learn Embarassed

https://i.imgur.com/mvLSLzJ.jpg

Best regards,
/Sebastian
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jan.oxymoron
jan.oxymoron
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[OPEN] Simple bug that really breaks (my) immersion! Empty Re: [OPEN] Simple bug that really breaks (my) immersion!

Tue May 05, 2020 12:30 pm
Hi, thanks for the report - yes, it's good to have all the bugs in one place, but email works too, it's just that after releases/discounts it usually takes quite a few days to get on top of all the reports and questions and to reply to everybody. Smile

Regarding the issue - this can sometimes happen as we try to have only one specific symptom for each diagnosis and share the 'generic ones' between as many diagnoses as possible (the main reason is to limit how often a diagnosis is immediately clear). That said, some of these cases could be improved by tweaking probabilities of individual symptoms for each diagnosis, I'll ask the designers to have a look.
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Swede74
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Tue May 05, 2020 12:52 pm
Ok, I understand Smile

Yes please see if this can be fixed.
It must be pretty easy to only exclude the patients that have pain, but refuse to say where.
I guess everyone agrees it really is very unrealistic, and for me it takes most of the fun out having it this way. Totally immersion breaking Sad

Many thanks, really! Smile
igor.oxymoron
igor.oxymoron
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Tue May 05, 2020 1:31 pm
Hello,
I am responsible for all medical content related designs and now i try to explain existence of "unclear symptoms" in the game's database:

well this issue is not a bug and it is far more complicated to change it, because it affects too many mechanics and systems. All "unclear" symptoms like pain/tenderness/redness/numbness/etc. have its purpose.

Sure there are diseases that are created by certain specific symptoms like "otalgia" = paint in the ears, "painfull cervical lymph nodes, etc when the player knows in the moment where it is located and also its meaning. But, If patient has any unclear symptom like pain, it does not mean that he refuses to localize the pain. In real life, it happens all the time, that patient says to his doctor, that he feels unwell, that he suffers from pain, and doctor will figure out after some simple diagnostics techniques what this "pain" means and what other symptoms are present giving him certain diagnosis.

The thing is that, if you have patient that is presented only with pain, you just need to try one by one examination technique to reveal other symptoms; start by using simple palpative techniques (abdominal palpation, neck palpation, thorax concussion), followed by equipment examinations (temperature measurement, crp, auscultation) or special examinations (FAST, USG, ECG, Xray) finished by laboratory examination methods.

In the case that you know that there is only one hidden symptom, you just try to use any special examination, maybe you will be successfull.

Cheers!

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Swede74
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Tue May 05, 2020 2:02 pm
Thanks for answers! Smile

My problem though isn't that it's hard to find the final diagnose, the problem is the lack of realism.
At least if a patient like this ends up having a broken leg, and you've done 20 different tests and the guy just complained about "tenderness".
If the final diagnose on the other hand is something diffuse, it would make sense I suppose.
In this particular case I don't know, cause 40 examinations later I'm out of options and I only got the diffuse "tenderness" from the guy...

When you hoover tenderness though, it says something about "tenderness in the affected area", but it isn't connected to any area so it becomes a bit silly...

I hope there is something, anything, you can do to minimise the problem, or maybe just make it clearer in the game that a tenderness symptom can be vague and sometimes hard to pinpoint?

Thanks for listening anyway! Smile
Hope to hear more feedback if it's possible to fix/minimise this issue in some way.
igor.oxymoron
igor.oxymoron
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Tue May 05, 2020 2:35 pm
Maybe a little bit more explanation,

In Project Hospital there are, generally, two major groups of diagnoses - A) diseases and B) traumas

Diseases are generally caused by bacteria, viruses, genetics, etc - something that can not be seen with the naked eye. There can be both very specific and generic symptoms present, sometimes the patient doesn't even know exactly where the source is.

In the case of any trauma there is always one "location" symptom present, that has probability set to 100% and can be revealed either by questioning or physical and visual examination (basic and most simple examination). This symptom reveals to the player that patient suffered injury on the hand, arm, leg, etc. thus unclear symptom in this case is not so unclear as man could expect.

Conclusion: If you can't reveal any location symptom by using questioning or physical and visual examination it will not be a trauma Wink

Best regards!
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Swede74
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[OPEN] Simple bug that really breaks (my) immersion! Empty Re: [OPEN] Simple bug that really breaks (my) immersion!

Tue May 05, 2020 2:47 pm
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Ah ok, thanks a lot!
That means we will never get a 100% stupid outcome, like a patient with broken leg complain about "tenderness/pain" and you can't find where by interview or visual exam Smile
It's more complicated cases/diagnoses that have the diffuse pain, sort of.

I think I'll have to buy that, and continue to enjoy the game - which is constantly improved on (as opposed to many other games...).

Have a great day Smile
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